Curse

Badenstein · May 29, 2008, 03:41 PM // 15:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by malko050987

When I want to feel all powerful and such, I use a build with [prepared shot] + [expert focus] and [sloth hunter's shot]

You hit pretty hard with those.

I have been playing with these, and with the right bow, and winnowing, I have hit for 80 plus damage many times. I have a penetration and expertise mod on my compound bow.

Melek · May 29, 2008, 04:52 PM // 16:52

If you want big single target damage you can't beat the re-buffed [penetrating attack]/[sundering attack]. The bar i have been using to great effect almost everywhere is:
[penetrating attack][sundering attack][prepared shot][savage shot][flail][read the wind][ebon vanguard assassin support][sunspear rebirth signet] (use 14 expertise and as much marksmanship as you like, and a zealous flatbow)

Orange Milk · May 29, 2008, 05:12 PM // 17:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badenstein
I have a penetration and expertise mod on my compound bow

WTH is that? Never heard of an Expertise Mod.

@ Tyla, Ofcourse I had D-Shot too, had traps, D-Shot and Blood Ritual for the monks durning the inital phases of the mission.

Badenstein · May 29, 2008, 05:45 PM // 17:45

I will post a screenie later, but it adds +1 Marksmanship about 15%-17% of the time. I forget the exact percentage.

Targren · May 29, 2008, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badenstein

I will post a screenie later, but it adds +1 Marksmanship about 15%-17% of the time. I forget the exact percentage.

Wouldn't that be a Marksmanship mod, not Expertise?

Badenstein · May 30, 2008, 01:14 AM // 01:14

The bow i use with that build.

Elia · May 30, 2008, 01:20 AM // 01:20

Try to get a new one from collectors or weaponsmith.

poasiods · May 30, 2008, 03:48 AM // 03:48

I personally wouldn't recommend [nightmare weapon] [triple shot] combo. There are much better ways to use two slots than for a spike which can only be executed once every 10 seconds.

[penetrating attack] [sundering attack] [sloth hunter's shot] [triple shot] [glass arrows]

Is a solid way to go, imo. I'd personally lay off of Forked Arrow, seeing you'll probably receive some number of enchantments for protection if you've gone so far to fight Torment Creatures.

Edit: Changed Dual Shot to Slot Hunter's Shot.

Div · May 30, 2008, 06:58 AM // 06:58

Adding triple shot makes you superspiker!

chesterocks7 · May 30, 2008, 03:55 PM // 15:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by malko050987

When I want to feel all powerful and such, I use a build with [prepared shot] + [expert focus] and [sloth hunter's shot]

You hit pretty hard with those. Having [triple shot] and [nightmare weapon] makes for a nice addition, too.

Obviously, you can use another elite or another preparation, but when running at 9 expertise or less, you run out of energy pretty fast if you use Sloth too many times. With this combo, if you have Expert Focus up at all times, you won't run out of energy.

The only downside is the rather long time you need to wait between attacks. But this is a spike-ey build...

why would you ever run at 9 or less expertise? unless youre running a build that spreads your attributes to 4 or more different areas, you should never have 9 or less expertise. it is the ranger primary, and an amazing primary at that. most of my builds i run with either 16 marksmanship or wilderness survival depending on my elite, and 13 expertise. if my elite is expertise i have 16 expertise with 12 or so of my other main attribute. for a spike build you should run 16 marks, or less if you dont like sup runes, and at least 11 expertise, and thats only if you absolutely must put points somewhere else. number one rule of being a ranger is that expertise is a ranger's best friend. if you spend enough points in it, you shouldnt have to bring energy management skills.

poasiods · May 30, 2008, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by chesterocks7

why would you ever run at 9 or less expertise? unless youre running a build that spreads your attributes to 4 or more different areas, you should never have 9 or less expertise. it is the ranger primary, and an amazing primary at that. most of my builds i run with either 16 marksmanship or wilderness survival depending on my elite, and 13 expertise. if my elite is expertise i have 16 expertise with 12 or so of my other main attribute. for a spike build you should run 16 marks, or less if you dont like sup runes, and at least 11 expertise, and thats only if you absolutely must put points somewhere else. number one rule of being a ranger is that expertise is a ranger's best friend. if you spend enough points in it, you shouldnt have to bring energy management skills.

...Why would you put in 16 into Expertise? Majority of ranger skills (those costing 5 to 10 mana) get cut off at 14 Expertise. I highly doubt you'll be spamming enough skills costing 15 to 25 mana to really be affected by the two extra points of energy you'll be saving.

Specing so heavy on Expertise and Marksmanship will leave you with little to invest in Wilderness Survival for self-healing, which means you won't be able to take the pressure of healing off of your monks as much as you should. Also, each of those attribute rune you add onto your ranger means one fewer Rune of Vitae for you. I can't even begin to mention the horror of superior attribute runes.

Orange Milk · May 30, 2008, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badenstein
The bow i use with that build.

I suggest upping your mods, when the 20 sundering and the +1 marks hit on the same attack I'm sure there is much bonus Damage so increase your chances of that happening.

Both those mods top out at a 20% chance, so try to get ahold of some Max mods like those.

ALSO, Max Damge for a Bow is 15-28, yours is falling seveal points less than that, Try to get a Max Dmage Bow.

Add all that up and your bow should end up something like this:
Canges from your bow are in bold

Sundering Composite Bow of Marksmanship
Piercing Dmg: 15-28 (Requires 9 Marksmanship)
Damage + 15% (While Health is above 50%)
Marksmanship +1 (20% chance while using skills)
Armor penetration +20% (Chance: 20%)
Customized for Badenstein Dmg 20%

Get a bow like that and your Damage will increase by AT LEAST 10hp on auto attacks(I did a tad of math in my head is all) and even more with the use of Attack skills and the full force of the mods.

Horn bows are nice too due to the fat they have 10% Armor pen inherintly inscibed in them off the bat, with the smae refire rate as your composite bow.

Quote:

Why would you put in 16 into Expertise

Stance duration I suppose, or more Dmg from [skill]Glass Arrows[/skill] or [skill]Point Blank Shot[/skill] and it's twin.

farmerfez · May 30, 2008, 07:27 PM // 19:27

Use triple shot and nightmare weapon

chesterocks7 · May 30, 2008, 07:59 PM // 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by poasiods

...Why would you put in 16 into Expertise? Majority of ranger skills (those costing 5 to 10 mana) get cut off at 14 Expertise. I highly doubt you'll be spamming enough skills costing 15 to 25 mana to really be affected by the two extra points of energy you'll be saving.

Specing so heavy on Expertise and Marksmanship will leave you with little to invest in Wilderness Survival for self-healing, which means you won't be able to take the pressure of healing off of your monks as much as you should. Also, each of those attribute rune you add onto your ranger means one fewer Rune of Vitae for you. I can't even begin to mention the horror of superior attribute runes.

i said i do 16 expertise if my elite is tied to expertise. no a ranger should never need 16 expertise for normal skills. and with the two runes you can lower expertise and marks to around 14 and 12 respectively, leaving you enough attribute points for troll. most monks will heal you regardless of whether or not you try and heal yourself, unless you specifically tell them not to. and if you are actually playing a ranger, you shouldn't NEED that +10 health from the rune of vitae. with a sup attribute rune, a sup vigor rune, a minor attribute rune, and two vitae runes, your health will be -5 what it would be without any runes or insignias. rangers are also the best survival class, so if you are playing the way you should, there should be no question about sacrificing 20 health for 4 attribute levels.

poasiods · May 30, 2008, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by chesterocks7

i said i do 16 expertise if my elite is tied to expertise. no a ranger should never need 16 expertise for normal skills. and with the two runes you can lower expertise and marks to around 14 and 12 respectively, leaving you enough attribute points for troll. most monks will heal you regardless of whether or not you try and heal yourself, unless you specifically tell them not to. and if you are actually playing a ranger, you shouldn't NEED that +10 health from the rune of vitae. with a sup attribute rune, a sup vigor rune, a minor attribute rune, and two vitae runes, your health will be -5 what it would be without any runes or insignias. rangers are also the best survival class, so if you are playing the way you should, there should be no question about sacrificing 20 health for 4 attribute levels.

I don't know where your getting sacrificing 20 health for 4 attribute levels. Superior attribute runes subtract 75 health from you for three attribute levels.

In my opinion, none of Expertise elite skills benefit enough from going to 16 instead of 14 to justify sacrificing 75 life. Right, Rangers do have best armor against elements and enough survival skills, but there's only so much you can do with that little life against all the bull they throw you later in Nightfall.

By repeatedly tossing around the phrase, "if you're playing ranger as you should," I certainly hope you don't mean standing outside the aggro bubble and shooting with a longbow or even a flatbow until your party gets wiped and rebirthing them all. I don't know what kind of builds you run, but having such low health will attract too many enemies to you and put you on a very high chance of dying from spikes if you're even remotely familiar with how to play your role in a party. You'll either put unnecessary strain on the monks or end up packing too many survival skills to be any effective at all.

Another role of rangers which people seem to grossly overlook is that they can actually make decent sponges to soak up damage. Attracting enemy melee fighters breaking into your casters' ranks to keep casters working or getting close to enemy casters to take half the elemental damage others would normally take (as well as making it easier to interrupt) is something ranger should be responsible for.

Although I usually do prefer Runes of Vitae, minor attribute runes are much more useful than major attribute runes. See your nearest Rune Trader and see which ones people prefer.

chesterocks7 · May 30, 2008, 09:55 PM // 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by poasiods

I don't know where your getting sacrificing 20 health for 4 attribute levels. Superior attribute runes subtract 75 health from you for three attribute levels.

In my opinion, none of Expertise elite skills benefit enough from going to 16 instead of 14 to justify sacrificing 75 life. Right, Rangers do have best armor against elements and enough survival skills, but there's only so much you can do with that little life against all the bull they throw you later in Nightfall.

By repeatedly tossing around the phrase, "if you're playing ranger as you should," I certainly hope you don't mean standing outside the aggro bubble and shooting with a longbow or even a flatbow until your party gets wiped and rebirthing them all. I don't know what kind of builds you run, but having such low health will attract too many enemies to you and put you on a very high chance of dying from spikes if you're even remotely familiar with how to play your role in a party. You'll either put unnecessary strain on the monks or end up packing too many survival skills to be any effective at all.

Another role of rangers which people seem to grossly overlook is that they can actually make decent sponges to soak up damage. Attracting enemy melee fighters breaking into your casters' ranks to keep casters working or getting close to enemy casters to take half the elemental damage others would normally take (as well as making it easier to interrupt) is something ranger should be responsible for.

Although I usually do prefer Runes of Vitae, minor attribute runes are much more useful than major attribute runes. See your nearest Rune Trader and see which ones people prefer.

yeah and see how many ppl eat at mcdonalds a day, does that make mcdonalds good food?

first off, the sacrificing 20 health for 4 attribute levels comes from the rune setup i mentioned in my post, sup attribute run, sup vigor rune, 2 runes of vitae, minor attribute rune. 2 attribute runes in place of two runes of vitae. yes overall without the attribute runes you will have about 95 more health, but you are a RANGER not a WARRIOR and if you play smart instead of sitting in one spot and firing away while soaking up dmg, you shouldnt need the extra health.

if youre having trouble soaking up the later nightfall areas, you may want to look into changing your builds or your class, cause if you play the ranger right with a good team setup, those areas are not any harder than any of the other more elite areas.

i use every type of popular ranger build out there, plus personal builds i come up with, use mostly a recurve bow, and always have a sup attribute rune and minor attribute rune. i have 505 health and have absolutely no trouble staying alive.

taking two defensive skills can make you an efficient "secondary tank" as you seemed to think rangers were meant for. throw dirt and whirling defense. with 12+ expeertise you can keep those two up indefinitely, completely protecting you from melee dmg, since you mentioned tanking melee fighters for your spellcasters. and if you are trying to tank the elemental dmg, the extra 95 or so health is not going to make much of a difference in those elite areas.

the popular belief that sup runes are evil and minor runes are so great does not hold true if you know your role in the party and play smart. the extra points to enhance your skills is far more important than having i bigger healthbar.

poasiods · May 30, 2008, 10:56 PM // 22:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by chesterocks7

first off, the sacrificing 20 health for 4 attribute levels comes from the rune setup i mentioned in my post, sup attribute run, sup vigor rune, 2 runes of vitae, minor attribute rune. 2 attribute runes in place of two runes of vitae. yes overall without the attribute runes you will have about 95 more health, but you are a RANGER not a WARRIOR and if you play smart instead of sitting in one spot and firing away while soaking up dmg, you shouldnt need the extra health.

taking two defensive skills can make you an efficient "secondary tank" as you seemed to think rangers were meant for. throw dirt and whirling defense. with 12+ expeertise you can keep those two up indefinitely, completely protecting you from melee dmg, since you mentioned tanking melee fighters for your spellcasters. and if you are trying to tank the elemental dmg, the extra 95 or so health is not going to make much of a difference in those elite areas.

Redirecting you where you wandered off, you're not exchanging 20 life for 4 attribute points - you're losing 75 to 85 life for using a superior attribute rune instead of minor attribute rune or a Rune of Vitae. Having 100 more health (20 percent extra) certainly does make a difference in most situations.

Also, you can't keep up Throw Dirt and Whirling Defenses up indefinitely. You can spam them pretty frequently to certainly efficiency if, for some reason, the mob decides not to Wild Blow it out of you or purge blind as you apply it. Exchanging two extra seconds of Throw Dirt and Whirling Defenses in exchange for 75 life is not worth it - it is much more efficient to keep the extra health.

Anyhow, returning to the original issue, no matter how smart you think you may be playing, losing 75 health in exchange for two extra attributes in Expertise is not a smart trade for any build.

milkflopance · May 30, 2008, 11:59 PM // 23:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

Sundering Composite Bow of Marksmanship
Piercing Dmg: 15-28 (Requires 9 Marksmanship)
Damage + 15% (While Health is above 50%)
Marksmanship +1 (20% chance while using skills)
Armor penetration +20% (Chance: 20%)
Customized for Badenstein Dmg 20%

Get a bow like that and your Damage will increase by AT LEAST 10hp on auto attacks(I did a tad of math in my head is all) and even more with the use of Attack skills and the full force of the mods.

Horn bows are nice too due to the fat they have 10% Armor pen inherintly inscibed in them off the bat, with the smae refire rate as your composite bow.

Horn bows have the slowest refire rate out of any type of bow, but share the range of a composite (which is a recurve).

The slow refire rate also makes them bad for preperations such as [glass arrows].

The Marksmanship mod will only work while using skills, and wont really do all that much for you. I'd rather take a +30 (or +29, they're cheaper and the 1 hp wont make a big difference) myself, as the extra damage from a +1 in Marksmanship every 5 skills is negligible.

I'd also recommend a vampiric bow string over sundering, you'll get a lot more out of it.

Orange Milk · May 31, 2008, 02:48 AM // 02:48

@ milkflopance

Read post above mine that I quaoted please and you will see that I was explaining to the poster how to maximize the bow he displayed.

telling him to run Vamp/Fort like everyone else doesn't help either, ther are better ways to optimize for max damage.

.3 difference in refire rate is "negligable" as you would say.

Bowstring Badass · May 31, 2008, 03:01 AM // 03:01

Besides the 10% armor pen that you get from it kind of makes it worth the extra .3 imo.